LCQ yes please! a qualifier worth watching live again
Fixed team colors with 2 special outfits for worlds/home race - cool
Fixed number boards for top dogs - Like!
Continental series, this has a lot of potential to be awesome and provide more viewing, but could also be a let down if not given the support and recognition it will require - This could be the answer to everyone's "we want more races" without stressing the current scene too much.
MORE IMPORTANTLY - give us a reliable and decent WORLDWIDE streaming platform to actually watch the races please!
Is the 15+5 team thing not just about who is included in team rankings, gets pit space preference etc?
I.e you don't need to be on one of the teams to race (you can meet one of the other criteria) but being on one of the teams affords you same kind of advantages it does currently?
That better be the case, otherwise it's a disgrace.
Re unions: There's not a union in the world with a unity of opinion, if the riders are balloted and decide on a strike and a few of the top guys decide to scab and go racing then that's their prerogative but i'd imagine it'd be fairly ruinous for their image and relationships with the rest of the riders
a handful people have reached out saying that it's not that the 15+5 elite teams thing is news, it's that trade teams are gone in 2025 (unless one happens to make the wildcard selection).
so my understanding (and again, i have no idea how accurate this info is), is that there are the 15+5 teams. riders not on one of those teams must meet the other qualifications (national champ or top XXX in continental champs or top XXX federation choices) to compete at a world cup.
so if 20 teams have the max of 10 riders (doubtful), that's 200 total riders across all classes, plus the small handful that meet the criteria. for comparison, this year les gets had 374 total racers, leogang, 359 racers, so it looks like we're generally cutting total participants in half.
Is it possible for the smaller (trade) teams to band together, pool $, etc to buy into an elite team? Seems like a logical step to benefit all. If AG Racing, Frameworks, etc formed a Coalition of racers then they should be able to pull off elite team status. At least I hope this could be the a thing.
The continental thing is a concept that should get more work. We want more races? =Feeder series! We have fast riders looking to come up into the “elite World Cup” circuit and no privateer access anymore ? =Feeder series! My homie/daughter/guy I know is fast af and wants to prove it? =feeder series!
Kids need access to high level racing? =feeder series. The fastest dudes can’t get on a team?=feedwr series.
It’s kinda stupid that this hasn’t been leveraged earlier by
A. Redbull to make a tv show B. UCI/national feds to grow the sport C. NORBA. Hopefully Warner bros is reading the forum. Tv shows make money. Make a tv show about the different national feeder series and watch the sport blossom like a gym registration after an Olympic year.
Is it possible for the smaller (trade) teams to band together, pool $, etc to buy into an elite team? Seems like a logical step to...
Is it possible for the smaller (trade) teams to band together, pool $, etc to buy into an elite team? Seems like a logical step to benefit all. If AG Racing, Frameworks, etc formed a Coalition of racers then they should be able to pull off elite team status. At least I hope this could be the a thing.
Well with a limit on teams there is going to be a limit on how much of that is possible. But the bigger question is what that looks like for sponsors and if riding fundamentally different equipment flys against what the eso envisions for a "team" in the sport.
There are easily well over 200 professional riders at a current world cup. My real question is how you get the majority of these 200 spots filled with 15+5 teams and if there is a legitimate chance at career for a lot of those current professional riders with so much power consolidated into a few spots. Brook Mcdonald and Connor Fearon bring a lot of eyeballs to we are one and forbidden but is that true if they can't guarantee a wildcard spot or if they can only race national/regional series which garner so much less attention.
Sure specialized can make Gen S specialized factory and get close to 10 riders. But does that benefit the specialized factory guys and does it make sense to send gen s to a regional series from specialized's marketing perspective? Are half the factory teams going to be the different canyon and commencal teams that have 3-6 riders. Cause that's a ton of potential careers that may not happen if guys and gals can't go to the world cup. Which is the mecca for media attention for anyone interested in racing. Nothing else comes even close to attention.
Maybe the best thing about world cups right now is Neko's frameworks story. I imagine frameworks will be one of those wildcard teams. But it's hard to imagine that story happening under these rules.
My biggest question though. Is how the hell were these guys not able to put together a 3 year plan in the first year. Would've been so much better for the sport if they had just laid out the 2022 ,2023,and 2024 plans back in 2022. Cause there are a ton of people with contracts who at this point have even less of an idea of what they are doing next year now.
"My biggest question though. Is how the hell were these guys not able to put together a 3 year plan in the first year. Would've been so much better for the sport if they had just laid out the 2022 ,2023,and 2024 plans back in 2022. Cause there are a ton of people with contracts who at this point have even less of an idea of what they are doing next year now." - bulletbass man
Same question here:
I have - as a small 1-person business - a plan reaching a few years out to make sure I'm hitting goals and to make sure my trajectory and cash do what they need to do to make it all work. You're telling me these multinational media corporation guys are just fuckin' winging it? It certainly seems like it. In fact, I HOPE they are because if these last couple years are what they've come up with after extensive consideration and planning, then I'm in the wrong profession and I could be consulting for these cats.
Speaking of consulting, here's some free consultation to the folks trying to put this whole thing together:
One thing I DO want to see that no one is calling for: in order for the "elite" teams to be up for consideration as a part of the guaranteed 15, they have to sign on for both downhill AND enduro and have a predetermined minimum number of riders in each. The other 5 teams should be applied for at the beginning of the season per race. The decision needs to happen ASAP to make sure it gives the teams a heads-up about costs, etc. and gives riders an opportunity for contract talks to be had.
Something else I'd love to see that they're specifically not really mentioning (unless I just missed it) one way or the other: a guaranteed number of "privateer" spots per race (earned via some amalgamation of feeder series, hand-picked-ness, and other points). 30 racers maybe? A (different?) specific team could be the title sponsor of the Privateer Pits every race weekend and then other companies could provide mechanics and extra parts as a donated sponsorship in exchange for extra coverage.
Everyone talks about wanting a story. Dedicate some of the broadcast every race to a racer who's racing out of the Underdog Pits (fuck, you can even call it the UP Rider). "I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the guys at Zerode for providing the UP this week. I was going to go back to mopping ceilings in the Vatican Bell Towers but my finishes in the last two feeder races (cut to highlights/podiums/champagne explosions) earned me enough points to make it in. Thanks, Mom, for driving me 75 hours to the Rotorua Feeder Race! I'm just so stoked to be here and stoked that Jordi in the Fox tent (cut to Fox logo placement) hooked me up with these new Fox 40s. My old forks were clapped and these felt great during the first practice. I'm ready to absolutely SEND it this weekend!"
Underdog story achieved. Add a bit of talk about some podium-likely folks and maybe do a profile on one per race. Creating new faves for new viewers. Now there's your story. Now, for some extra spice, pit the UP rider against the featured podium-likely rider. People love stats, compare useless shit like height, armspan, bike wheelbase, home country, current residence, current sponsors, best results, etc.. A David v Goliath situation is captivating enough to make even reality TV producers sit up at attention without a little blue pill.
Want to funnel more people to a specific website? Great! Take some video of a podium-contender and the featured UP rider in a section during practice. Stick Cathro or Alan Milway or Rob Warner in front of a greenscreen and have them do some analysis during the broadcast. Tell people that tons more of that heavy analysis can be found on [their dumb fuckin' website]. Actually follow through with that promise. NOW you've separated out your casual viewers from your most enthusiastic viewers. You can market to each group differently. AND you can track your numbers. AND you can drop cookies on their device to remind them to buy Fox, Redbull, Zerode, and reup their subscription to the broadcast.
I know Red Bull have a lot of rider present with helmet sponsorship. But I’ve always wondered why they haven’t done more after the production was taken over by WB. Like a team, they sure have spare change for a team… or a team for Red bull sponsored athletes without a team.
"My biggest question though. Is how the hell were these guys not able to put together a 3 year plan in the first year. Would've been...
"My biggest question though. Is how the hell were these guys not able to put together a 3 year plan in the first year. Would've been so much better for the sport if they had just laid out the 2022 ,2023,and 2024 plans back in 2022. Cause there are a ton of people with contracts who at this point have even less of an idea of what they are doing next year now." - bulletbass man
Same question here:
I have - as a small 1-person business - a plan reaching a few years out to make sure I'm hitting goals and to make sure my trajectory and cash do what they need to do to make it all work. You're telling me these multinational media corporation guys are just fuckin' winging it? It certainly seems like it. In fact, I HOPE they are because if these last couple years are what they've come up with after extensive consideration and planning, then I'm in the wrong profession and I could be consulting for these cats.
Speaking of consulting, here's some free consultation to the folks trying to put this whole thing together:
One thing I DO want to see that no one is calling for: in order for the "elite" teams to be up for consideration as a part of the guaranteed 15, they have to sign on for both downhill AND enduro and have a predetermined minimum number of riders in each. The other 5 teams should be applied for at the beginning of the season per race. The decision needs to happen ASAP to make sure it gives the teams a heads-up about costs, etc. and gives riders an opportunity for contract talks to be had.
Something else I'd love to see that they're specifically not really mentioning (unless I just missed it) one way or the other: a guaranteed number of "privateer" spots per race (earned via some amalgamation of feeder series, hand-picked-ness, and other points). 30 racers maybe? A (different?) specific team could be the title sponsor of the Privateer Pits every race weekend and then other companies could provide mechanics and extra parts as a donated sponsorship in exchange for extra coverage.
Everyone talks about wanting a story. Dedicate some of the broadcast every race to a racer who's racing out of the Underdog Pits (fuck, you can even call it the UP Rider). "I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the guys at Zerode for providing the UP this week. I was going to go back to mopping ceilings in the Vatican Bell Towers but my finishes in the last two feeder races (cut to highlights/podiums/champagne explosions) earned me enough points to make it in. Thanks, Mom, for driving me 75 hours to the Rotorua Feeder Race! I'm just so stoked to be here and stoked that Jordi in the Fox tent (cut to Fox logo placement) hooked me up with these new Fox 40s. My old forks were clapped and these felt great during the first practice. I'm ready to absolutely SEND it this weekend!"
Underdog story achieved. Add a bit of talk about some podium-likely folks and maybe do a profile on one per race. Creating new faves for new viewers. Now there's your story. Now, for some extra spice, pit the UP rider against the featured podium-likely rider. People love stats, compare useless shit like height, armspan, bike wheelbase, home country, current residence, current sponsors, best results, etc.. A David v Goliath situation is captivating enough to make even reality TV producers sit up at attention without a little blue pill.
Want to funnel more people to a specific website? Great! Take some video of a podium-contender and the featured UP rider in a section during practice. Stick Cathro or Alan Milway or Rob Warner in front of a greenscreen and have them do some analysis during the broadcast. Tell people that tons more of that heavy analysis can be found on [their dumb fuckin' website]. Actually follow through with that promise. NOW you've separated out your casual viewers from your most enthusiastic viewers. You can market to each group differently. AND you can track your numbers. AND you can drop cookies on their device to remind them to buy Fox, Redbull, Zerode, and reup their subscription to the broadcast.
"Top 5 ranked in the Continental Series or 3 riders from a federation can compete." That's at least what Spomer said in the original post for how many 'privateers' or riders not on factory teams will have access to race each round.
Having a privateer team that facilitates parts, mechanics, pit space, etc., would be sweet. I know that happens in Supercross (can't remember the name of the team.) I don't think ESO/WBD really cares about privateers enough to make this happen, and the underdog story will always come to fruition once a season. I don't think we need that storyline at every race.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, and I know I'm being a hypocrite as a once-upon-a-time World Cup privateer, but I don't think World Cups need to cater to privateers. Having a system in place to allow riders to progress to racing at the highest level feels more important than requiring/expecting the World Cup series promoters/broadcasters to make their elite events accessible to up-and-comers. As I mentioned above, my fear is that unknown racers have a way to get to World Cups if they have the ability to compete. I don't necessarily agree that changing things at the top is the best way to do this, but I guess change has to start somewhere, and hopefully this creates the need for more feeder series globally. I also believe that the cream always rises to the top. Racers who want it and have what it takes will always find a way.
The main reason I raced World Cups was that it was the most legitimate way to prove my worth as a racer in 2015-2017 living in the US. Some podiums at a National Series didn't really stand for much, but a 50th at a World Cup got attention. I know things are different now in the US with all the momentum behind #USDH, and I hope more racers are realizing you can really cut your teeth at local/national events so that when you make the push to race World Cups, it's a more productive experience.
- 234 DH riders registered across 53 teams, averaging 4.4 riders per team.
- Of the 53 teams, I did a quick exercise to detemining which ones were "elite" (at least in my mind)... I counted 23 (Canyons, Commencals, Spec, Mondraker, Syndicate, Trek, etc). So in order to fit the bill, some teams would need to drop (or dissolve into one another).
- Of the 23 "elite" teams that I identified, they registered 107 riders total... My "elite" team selection leaves out a shit ton of fast racers (eg Frameworks, Gwin, Madison Saracen, Beyond, etc), so there would be some great racers to pick-up.
Therefore, in order to fill the rumoured format (20 teams x 10 riders), the "elite" teams will have to nearly double their riders/staff/infrastructure. How on earth could they possibly do that in the span of one off-season? Maybe the Canyon and Commencal teams could dissolve into one another administratively and minimze their operational impacts... But the rest? How is Specialized Gravity supposed to more that triple their team size to meet their presumed allocation as an "Elite" team?
Or are we just going to have a tiny field of racers next year, given that teams like Specialized will want to stay in the game, but won't be able to scale-up to a 10 rider roster/allocation?
I know Red Bull have a lot of rider present with helmet sponsorship. But I’ve always wondered why they haven’t done more after the production was...
I know Red Bull have a lot of rider present with helmet sponsorship. But I’ve always wondered why they haven’t done more after the production was taken over by WB. Like a team, they sure have spare change for a team… or a team for Red bull sponsored athletes without a team.
Well RedBull did just buy a cycling team but its a road cycling team... For sure they get more ROI and exposure from road cycling than mtb and thats just how business works
Jumping ahead to 2028, why am I not seeing any talk of adding DH in LA? Terrain?
LA28 hasn’t even confirmed where xc will be. They stated Bonelli Park in the 2017 bid packet, but their current marketing materials are suspiciously devoid of any mention of “mtb”, xco, etc. With kayaking and softball both set to take place in Oklahoma, i would be pretty un-surprised if Arkansas was where they decide to send the mtb race.
So "q1" and "q2"...this means there's still qualifiers - semi-finals - finals? Doesn't everyone hate the semi-final thing on the same day as the actual race?
I read it to be more like super/moto x. Two different group.. different times.. and the top 30 (20 from q1 and 10 from q2) advance to...
I read it to be more like super/moto x. Two different group.. different times.. and the top 30 (20 from q1 and 10 from q2) advance to final. not sure how that’s going to work.. or why they are doing it that way. The only reason they do it in Moto is because of the amount of riders on the track.
Qualifying in Moto x is fun to watch, but doubt it could be replicated in DH.
No idea why they needed to change the whole thing anyway. stick with qualifying on Saturday and race on Sunday. don’t need to show qualification, just compress in into a highlight reel and show it before Sundays race,
I believe it will be a qualifier (of all riders, Probably top ranked riders first). Then they will do a last chance qualifier of remaining riders...
I believe it will be a qualifier (of all riders, Probably top ranked riders first). Then they will do a last chance qualifier of remaining riders instead of semifinals. The qualifier will probably have similar points to the later redbull era with most the points going to the top few riders and 1-15ish for the rest of the 20. There will be no points (towards championship or entry requirements) for winning lcqs. i Imagine they will have some type of highlights/interview package encompassing both races for now. With potentially some live streaming from the finish corral.
Then a 30 rider final the same it has been the last couple years.
Seems like a positive change for tv. Not necessarily a positive change for onsite spectators. But it's more racing than the original system even if it's less than the past couple years. Also more in line with the original "ethos" of the sport.
I personally think now is the perfect time to add another 5 riders to women. Hopefully another 5 in a year or two as more fast juniors enter the elite ranks. The goal should be to grow the women's side solely at this point.
I also like no protection. But quite frankly I think protection has worked not only in terms of tv narrative but simply competition. Tahnee won this year with a protected race run. Dak got 2nd with a run that looked like it was going to win. As long as you are increasing the maximum of riders instead of removing spots i think protection makes a lot of sense. You could easily do 1-12 protected riders in 2-20 minutes of tv time. Thats top 3 both men and women's for current and previous season. And most races and seasons you'll have fewer numbers than that. Just give them 1 minute splits and send them early. And if a protected rider uses this to their advantage for weather than so be it. Just adds to the narrative.
Thank you, that makes a lot more sense!
BTW...my first college job was a UPS loader in West Chester. One of my trucks was Collegeville. I remember that, cause there was a small-parts / ball-bearing business there. 10x10" boxes that weighed 99 pounds! I'm sure that Collegeville is nice, but I came to dread the word whenever I saw it on the line.
I'm wondering if there will be a mechanism for teams to be promoted/relegated to and from the feeder series', or if it'll be a closed shop like F1 and the only way for riders to hit the big league will be to hope spots will open up in one of those 20 teams. If it's the latter I think that'll be truly terrible for the sport.
Question/thought on the rumored feeder/continental series: Doesn’t Warner Bros just have the rights to the current World Cup series? If that’s the case I’m assuming they would either partner with existing UCI sanctioned series, create their own new lower level series, or just tell the teams and riders left out of the World Cup to figure it out on their own. I would think partnering with existing domestic series would be the most realistic option, but I have no idea. Either way I’d be surprised if there’s any formal system of promotion/relegation as there aren’t anywhere close to enough races to do that like they do in the road world tour.
Question/thought on the rumored feeder/continental series: Doesn’t Warner Bros just have the rights to the current World Cup series? If that’s the case I’m assuming they...
Question/thought on the rumored feeder/continental series: Doesn’t Warner Bros just have the rights to the current World Cup series? If that’s the case I’m assuming they would either partner with existing UCI sanctioned series, create their own new lower level series, or just tell the teams and riders left out of the World Cup to figure it out on their own. I would think partnering with existing domestic series would be the most realistic option, but I have no idea. Either way I’d be surprised if there’s any formal system of promotion/relegation as there aren’t anywhere close to enough races to do that like they do in the road world tour.
To your last point I fear you're probably right. With most contracts seeming to be around the 3 year mark and (in my opinion) an unlikelihood that teams will expand their rider numbers it's hard to see how upcoming riders will break through. Maybe teams will go down the route of shorter contracts? For sure it's going to be harder for a lot of riders under these changes.
hearing that e-EDR is dead in 2025. no idea how sound, but can see that it makes sense but also that it doesn't because "e-bikes are the future of the sport". anyone else hear anything?
So now its e-EDR and not EDR, people should really make up their mind already!
Jokes aside, kind of saw this one coming and never for a second believed (and still don't) that EDR would die before e-EDR. No one cares about e-racing and the social media figures and stars just aren't there, no offence to them but can't really compete with Rude, Moir, Murray and co.
E-EDR is like if we would have a DH hardtail category at the World Cup. It's cool to be inclusive and all that but it doesn't really belong to the elite level. It should be a kind of cat3 discipline. What kind of skills or athleticism can a top rider demonstrate better on an ebike than a regular bike?
E-EDR is like if we would have a DH hardtail category at the World Cup. It's cool to be inclusive and all that but it doesn't...
E-EDR is like if we would have a DH hardtail category at the World Cup. It's cool to be inclusive and all that but it doesn't really belong to the elite level. It should be a kind of cat3 discipline. What kind of skills or athleticism can a top rider demonstrate better on an ebike than a regular bike?
You mean you don’t enjoy watching the uphill climbing section that someone like Chris akrigg could do without a motor?
If e-edr is dead that would be great. They could get back to focusing on real enduro. Multiple day events. Organizing new locations and updated locations. If the series returns to being the race you wish you were at and you wish you had time to train for then it will go back to being something that’s interesting, innovative, and meaningful for the industry and fans a like.
Follow the likes of Trans Madeira, Trans Nomad, team enduro races (don't recommend Enduro2, which folded anyway, do recommend what they are doing in Davos) and the like. Wrote the above examples because those are the ones I did, but there are tons others too.
Personally, I check out the results and a few clips of the E-EDR races. The coverage is awful, which is the first issue in this chicken and egg problem of getting people interested. But I like to know which bikes/motors are up there, and I have ridden with a few of the contenders so like to follow their careers.
Additionally, I have raced a few enduros on the ebike including the E-EDR only Valberg 2022 race. I don't think I will bother racing e-enduros when it is just the normal enduro course with an extra stage or 1-2 timed uphills. Too much time wasted with driving registration etc for the equivalent in distance and descending to my lunch rides (this is not an exaggeration). I can do so much more range on my bike, would like to see what an actual athlete can do.
If the industry was in a better place, they should get brands to invest and do a small pro only series with just handful of events (2-3) actually showcasing what can be done: 3000m+ climbing days, massive stages with up to, for example 20% climbing in the stage to allow for massive stages with effectively liaisons within them. Have interval splits in the stages at key points, such as climbs/flat sections. Run these events 1 week after EDR or DH events when the calendar is free, to try to attract the big names. I would even allow for a free for all on equipment: as many batteries, wheels, tyre, motor changes as you want no penalties, but it needs to be reported and public. You get 2-3 days of practice on course.
My alternative, this is specifically from an organisational improvement point of view, as marhalling and saftey on e-enduro is the biggest issue: e-enduro with ~3 stages, but you can run each stage as many times as you want, best time counts, with live timing on your phone. Imagine your buddy beats you by 5s on stage 1, you can go back up 2-3 times to try to beat him. I actually think this could have interesting stories, e.g. "wow Martin Maes ran the stage with the impossible climb 4 times in order to win the race etc", "Bruni raced the the 1 minute DH stage 10 times, finishing 5 seconds ahead of the Hill who only ran it once!"
So now its e-EDR and not EDR, people should really make up their mind already!Jokes aside, kind of saw this one coming and never for a...
So now its e-EDR and not EDR, people should really make up their mind already!
Jokes aside, kind of saw this one coming and never for a second believed (and still don't) that EDR would die before e-EDR. No one cares about e-racing and the social media figures and stars just aren't there, no offence to them but can't really compete with Rude, Moir, Murray and co.
LCQ yes please! a qualifier worth watching live again
Fixed team colors with 2 special outfits for worlds/home race - cool
Fixed number boards for top dogs - Like!
Continental series, this has a lot of potential to be awesome and provide more viewing, but could also be a let down if not given the support and recognition it will require - This could be the answer to everyone's "we want more races" without stressing the current scene too much.
MORE IMPORTANTLY - give us a reliable and decent WORLDWIDE streaming platform to actually watch the races please!
Is the 15+5 team thing not just about who is included in team rankings, gets pit space preference etc?
I.e you don't need to be on one of the teams to race (you can meet one of the other criteria) but being on one of the teams affords you same kind of advantages it does currently?
That better be the case, otherwise it's a disgrace.
Re unions: There's not a union in the world with a unity of opinion, if the riders are balloted and decide on a strike and a few of the top guys decide to scab and go racing then that's their prerogative but i'd imagine it'd be fairly ruinous for their image and relationships with the rest of the riders
a handful people have reached out saying that it's not that the 15+5 elite teams thing is news, it's that trade teams are gone in 2025 (unless one happens to make the wildcard selection).
so my understanding (and again, i have no idea how accurate this info is), is that there are the 15+5 teams. riders not on one of those teams must meet the other qualifications (national champ or top XXX in continental champs or top XXX federation choices) to compete at a world cup.
so if 20 teams have the max of 10 riders (doubtful), that's 200 total riders across all classes, plus the small handful that meet the criteria. for comparison, this year les gets had 374 total racers, leogang, 359 racers, so it looks like we're generally cutting total participants in half.
Is it possible for the smaller (trade) teams to band together, pool $, etc to buy into an elite team? Seems like a logical step to benefit all. If AG Racing, Frameworks, etc formed a Coalition of racers then they should be able to pull off elite team status. At least I hope this could be the a thing.
The continental thing is a concept that should get more work.
We want more races? =Feeder series!
We have fast riders looking to come up into the “elite World Cup” circuit and no privateer access anymore ? =Feeder series!
My homie/daughter/guy I know is fast af and wants to prove it? =feeder series!
Kids need access to high level racing? =feeder series.
The fastest dudes can’t get on a team?=feedwr series.
It’s kinda stupid that this hasn’t been leveraged earlier by
A. Redbull to make a tv show
B. UCI/national feds to grow the sport
C. NORBA.
Hopefully Warner bros is reading the forum.
Tv shows make money.
Make a tv show about the different national feeder series and watch the sport blossom like a gym registration after an Olympic year.
Well with a limit on teams there is going to be a limit on how much of that is possible. But the bigger question is what that looks like for sponsors and if riding fundamentally different equipment flys against what the eso envisions for a "team" in the sport.
There are easily well over 200 professional riders at a current world cup. My real question is how you get the majority of these 200 spots filled with 15+5 teams and if there is a legitimate chance at career for a lot of those current professional riders with so much power consolidated into a few spots. Brook Mcdonald and Connor Fearon bring a lot of eyeballs to we are one and forbidden but is that true if they can't guarantee a wildcard spot or if they can only race national/regional series which garner so much less attention.
Sure specialized can make Gen S specialized factory and get close to 10 riders. But does that benefit the specialized factory guys and does it make sense to send gen s to a regional series from specialized's marketing perspective? Are half the factory teams going to be the different canyon and commencal teams that have 3-6 riders. Cause that's a ton of potential careers that may not happen if guys and gals can't go to the world cup. Which is the mecca for media attention for anyone interested in racing. Nothing else comes even close to attention.
Maybe the best thing about world cups right now is Neko's frameworks story. I imagine frameworks will be one of those wildcard teams. But it's hard to imagine that story happening under these rules.
My biggest question though. Is how the hell were these guys not able to put together a 3 year plan in the first year. Would've been so much better for the sport if they had just laid out the 2022 ,2023,and 2024 plans back in 2022. Cause there are a ton of people with contracts who at this point have even less of an idea of what they are doing next year now.
"My biggest question though. Is how the hell were these guys not able to put together a 3 year plan in the first year. Would've been so much better for the sport if they had just laid out the 2022 ,2023,and 2024 plans back in 2022. Cause there are a ton of people with contracts who at this point have even less of an idea of what they are doing next year now." - bulletbass man
Same question here:
I have - as a small 1-person business - a plan reaching a few years out to make sure I'm hitting goals and to make sure my trajectory and cash do what they need to do to make it all work. You're telling me these multinational media corporation guys are just fuckin' winging it? It certainly seems like it. In fact, I HOPE they are because if these last couple years are what they've come up with after extensive consideration and planning, then I'm in the wrong profession and I could be consulting for these cats.
Speaking of consulting, here's some free consultation to the folks trying to put this whole thing together:
One thing I DO want to see that no one is calling for: in order for the "elite" teams to be up for consideration as a part of the guaranteed 15, they have to sign on for both downhill AND enduro and have a predetermined minimum number of riders in each. The other 5 teams should be applied for at the beginning of the season per race. The decision needs to happen ASAP to make sure it gives the teams a heads-up about costs, etc. and gives riders an opportunity for contract talks to be had.
Something else I'd love to see that they're specifically not really mentioning (unless I just missed it) one way or the other: a guaranteed number of "privateer" spots per race (earned via some amalgamation of feeder series, hand-picked-ness, and other points). 30 racers maybe? A (different?) specific team could be the title sponsor of the Privateer Pits every race weekend and then other companies could provide mechanics and extra parts as a donated sponsorship in exchange for extra coverage.
Everyone talks about wanting a story. Dedicate some of the broadcast every race to a racer who's racing out of the Underdog Pits (fuck, you can even call it the UP Rider). "I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the guys at Zerode for providing the UP this week. I was going to go back to mopping ceilings in the Vatican Bell Towers but my finishes in the last two feeder races (cut to highlights/podiums/champagne explosions) earned me enough points to make it in. Thanks, Mom, for driving me 75 hours to the Rotorua Feeder Race! I'm just so stoked to be here and stoked that Jordi in the Fox tent (cut to Fox logo placement) hooked me up with these new Fox 40s. My old forks were clapped and these felt great during the first practice. I'm ready to absolutely SEND it this weekend!"
Underdog story achieved. Add a bit of talk about some podium-likely folks and maybe do a profile on one per race. Creating new faves for new viewers. Now there's your story. Now, for some extra spice, pit the UP rider against the featured podium-likely rider. People love stats, compare useless shit like height, armspan, bike wheelbase, home country, current residence, current sponsors, best results, etc.. A David v Goliath situation is captivating enough to make even reality TV producers sit up at attention without a little blue pill.
Want to funnel more people to a specific website? Great! Take some video of a podium-contender and the featured UP rider in a section during practice. Stick Cathro or Alan Milway or Rob Warner in front of a greenscreen and have them do some analysis during the broadcast. Tell people that tons more of that heavy analysis can be found on [their dumb fuckin' website]. Actually follow through with that promise. NOW you've separated out your casual viewers from your most enthusiastic viewers. You can market to each group differently. AND you can track your numbers. AND you can drop cookies on their device to remind them to buy Fox, Redbull, Zerode, and reup their subscription to the broadcast.
I know Red Bull have a lot of rider present with helmet sponsorship. But I’ve always wondered why they haven’t done more after the production was taken over by WB. Like a team, they sure have spare change for a team… or a team for Red bull sponsored athletes without a team.
"Top 5 ranked in the Continental Series or 3 riders from a federation can compete." That's at least what Spomer said in the original post for how many 'privateers' or riders not on factory teams will have access to race each round.
Having a privateer team that facilitates parts, mechanics, pit space, etc., would be sweet. I know that happens in Supercross (can't remember the name of the team.) I don't think ESO/WBD really cares about privateers enough to make this happen, and the underdog story will always come to fruition once a season. I don't think we need that storyline at every race.
Maybe an unpopular opinion, and I know I'm being a hypocrite as a once-upon-a-time World Cup privateer, but I don't think World Cups need to cater to privateers. Having a system in place to allow riders to progress to racing at the highest level feels more important than requiring/expecting the World Cup series promoters/broadcasters to make their elite events accessible to up-and-comers. As I mentioned above, my fear is that unknown racers have a way to get to World Cups if they have the ability to compete. I don't necessarily agree that changing things at the top is the best way to do this, but I guess change has to start somewhere, and hopefully this creates the need for more feeder series globally. I also believe that the cream always rises to the top. Racers who want it and have what it takes will always find a way.
The main reason I raced World Cups was that it was the most legitimate way to prove my worth as a racer in 2015-2017 living in the US. Some podiums at a National Series didn't really stand for much, but a 50th at a World Cup got attention. I know things are different now in the US with all the momentum behind #USDH, and I hope more racers are realizing you can really cut your teeth at local/national events so that when you make the push to race World Cups, it's a more productive experience.
So based on this website, there are:
- 234 DH riders registered across 53 teams, averaging 4.4 riders per team.
- Of the 53 teams, I did a quick exercise to detemining which ones were "elite" (at least in my mind)... I counted 23 (Canyons, Commencals, Spec, Mondraker, Syndicate, Trek, etc). So in order to fit the bill, some teams would need to drop (or dissolve into one another).
- Of the 23 "elite" teams that I identified, they registered 107 riders total... My "elite" team selection leaves out a shit ton of fast racers (eg Frameworks, Gwin, Madison Saracen, Beyond, etc), so there would be some great racers to pick-up.
Therefore, in order to fill the rumoured format (20 teams x 10 riders), the "elite" teams will have to nearly double their riders/staff/infrastructure. How on earth could they possibly do that in the span of one off-season? Maybe the Canyon and Commencal teams could dissolve into one another administratively and minimze their operational impacts... But the rest? How is Specialized Gravity supposed to more that triple their team size to meet their presumed allocation as an "Elite" team?
Or are we just going to have a tiny field of racers next year, given that teams like Specialized will want to stay in the game, but won't be able to scale-up to a 10 rider roster/allocation?
Jumping ahead to 2028, why am I not seeing any talk of adding DH in LA? Terrain?
Probably because the UCI won't drop any more track disciplines to make room for it.
Personally, I'm glad for it. DH currently has enough on it's plate without having to cosy up to the IOC.
Well RedBull did just buy a cycling team but its a road cycling team... For sure they get more ROI and exposure from road cycling than mtb and thats just how business works
LA28 hasn’t even confirmed where xc will be. They stated Bonelli Park in the 2017 bid packet, but their current marketing materials are suspiciously devoid of any mention of “mtb”, xco, etc. With kayaking and softball both set to take place in Oklahoma, i would be pretty un-surprised if Arkansas was where they decide to send the mtb race.
Thank you, that makes a lot more sense!
BTW...my first college job was a UPS loader in West Chester. One of my trucks was Collegeville. I remember that, cause there was a small-parts / ball-bearing business there. 10x10" boxes that weighed 99 pounds! I'm sure that Collegeville is nice, but I came to dread the word whenever I saw it on the line.
I'm wondering if there will be a mechanism for teams to be promoted/relegated to and from the feeder series', or if it'll be a closed shop like F1 and the only way for riders to hit the big league will be to hope spots will open up in one of those 20 teams. If it's the latter I think that'll be truly terrible for the sport.
What colour did Chris Ball get his Ferrari in after all of this?
Question/thought on the rumored feeder/continental series: Doesn’t Warner Bros just have the rights to the current World Cup series? If that’s the case I’m assuming they would either partner with existing UCI sanctioned series, create their own new lower level series, or just tell the teams and riders left out of the World Cup to figure it out on their own.
I would think partnering with existing domestic series would be the most realistic option, but I have no idea. Either way I’d be surprised if there’s any formal system of promotion/relegation as there aren’t anywhere close to enough races to do that like they do in the road world tour.
FWIW, road racing has the world tour and the pro tour?
And Continental circuit below that
To your last point I fear you're probably right. With most contracts seeming to be around the 3 year mark and (in my opinion) an unlikelihood that teams will expand their rider numbers it's hard to see how upcoming riders will break through. Maybe teams will go down the route of shorter contracts? For sure it's going to be harder for a lot of riders under these changes.
hearing that e-EDR is dead in 2025. no idea how sound, but can see that it makes sense but also that it doesn't because "e-bikes are the future of the sport". anyone else hear anything?
it's been dead from the start!
So now its e-EDR and not EDR, people should really make up their mind already!
Jokes aside, kind of saw this one coming and never for a second believed (and still don't) that EDR would die before e-EDR. No one cares about e-racing and the social media figures and stars just aren't there, no offence to them but can't really compete with Rude, Moir, Murray and co.
E-EDR is like if we would have a DH hardtail category at the World Cup. It's cool to be inclusive and all that but it doesn't really belong to the elite level. It should be a kind of cat3 discipline. What kind of skills or athleticism can a top rider demonstrate better on an ebike than a regular bike?
E-EDR is dead only because it take EDRs place😂
You mean you don’t enjoy watching the uphill climbing section that someone like Chris akrigg could do without a motor?
If e-edr is dead that would be great. They could get back to focusing on real enduro. Multiple day events. Organizing new locations and updated locations. If the series returns to being the race you wish you were at and you wish you had time to train for then it will go back to being something that’s interesting, innovative, and meaningful for the industry and fans a like.
Follow the likes of Trans Madeira, Trans Nomad, team enduro races (don't recommend Enduro2, which folded anyway, do recommend what they are doing in Davos) and the like. Wrote the above examples because those are the ones I did, but there are tons others too.
Personally, I check out the results and a few clips of the E-EDR races. The coverage is awful, which is the first issue in this chicken and egg problem of getting people interested. But I like to know which bikes/motors are up there, and I have ridden with a few of the contenders so like to follow their careers.
Additionally, I have raced a few enduros on the ebike including the E-EDR only Valberg 2022 race. I don't think I will bother racing e-enduros when it is just the normal enduro course with an extra stage or 1-2 timed uphills. Too much time wasted with driving registration etc for the equivalent in distance and descending to my lunch rides (this is not an exaggeration). I can do so much more range on my bike, would like to see what an actual athlete can do.
If the industry was in a better place, they should get brands to invest and do a small pro only series with just handful of events (2-3) actually showcasing what can be done: 3000m+ climbing days, massive stages with up to, for example 20% climbing in the stage to allow for massive stages with effectively liaisons within them. Have interval splits in the stages at key points, such as climbs/flat sections. Run these events 1 week after EDR or DH events when the calendar is free, to try to attract the big names. I would even allow for a free for all on equipment: as many batteries, wheels, tyre, motor changes as you want no penalties, but it needs to be reported and public. You get 2-3 days of practice on course.
My alternative, this is specifically from an organisational improvement point of view, as marhalling and saftey on e-enduro is the biggest issue: e-enduro with ~3 stages, but you can run each stage as many times as you want, best time counts, with live timing on your phone. Imagine your buddy beats you by 5s on stage 1, you can go back up 2-3 times to try to beat him. I actually think this could have interesting stories, e.g. "wow Martin Maes ran the stage with the impossible climb 4 times in order to win the race etc", "Bruni raced the the 1 minute DH stage 10 times, finishing 5 seconds ahead of the Hill who only ran it once!"
Just call it E²DR.
Post a reply to: 2025 Race Talk